An open letter

Hi there lovely community, Viv here, also known as community beaterator on the Discord guild.

This post is not meant with any form of negativity towards anybody. It’s supposed to serve as an open letter to anybody reading through it (Preferably also someone of note that is actually able to address concerns) wanting some more information and I’m hopeful it will receive a proper reply given everything I’m about to go over below. I’m assuming that this post will be entirely removed or closed down if there is no formal reply to be provided, so I’ll save it as a draft either way for future reference.

I wanted to follow up a bit on my comment made in the latest 2024 January Community pulse:

There’s a couple of bullet points I’ve provided below that I’d like to address.

  • This community pulse has been made seemingly a lot later, the 29th of January this time around, when this was seemingly never the case before (See June, July, August, September, October, November, December. 03/06/2023 June Pulse, 08/07/2023 July Pulse, 11/07/2023 August Pulse (Rockstar acquiring Cfx.re), 15/09/2023 September Pulse, 13/10/2023 October Pulse, 18/11/2023 November Pulse, 15/12/2023 December Pulse. Why is this the case in the first place?

  • I personally understand burnout if this is the case. We’ve all experienced it given the situation. An acquisition is never really pretty in any case and it comes with it’s own setbacks.

  • If this isn’t the case, what would it be? We would understand not having much done and leaving it up to @tabarra to showcase a really fresh, nice update for txAdmin that is full of information. (Thanks by the way, you’re an absolute star). Other than this there is seemingly nothing else of particular note.

  • Given the fact that an exploit was patched out by @nta, we would have at least expected the community pulse to be out earlier, instead of having to practically beg for it within the public Discord guild. Every other community pulse has come a lot earlier, not at the end of the month, given all this, we’ve seen no further developments. The exploit was known about for months prior to the actual pull request being submitted. (Given the second bullet point I’ve mentioned, it’s completely understandable, we’d just like some further clarity on it)

  • On the second point mentioned here, we would completely understand it. PR, however, is also supposed to address concerns like these. Anything in the form of “We’re aware development has been a bit slow given certain circumstances, we’re trying our best to address it internally and we’ll keep you updated as soon as possible.” would be at least more than enough to alleviate different concerns.

With all of this being said, we’d all appreciate it if it was somewhat addressed or we at least received some form of a reply, whatever it is. As mentioned in my comment in the January Community Pulse, please give us something. Anything at all. It’s desperation at this point.

It’s an outcry from community members that have stuck around with the project, have followed updates, are always around to talk to that have their own concerns. It doesn’t come from a place of “Oh Rockstar Games acquired Cfx.re, FiveM is ruined”, it comes from a place of care about the actual project. If we didn’t like it, we wouldn’t criticize it. We’d simply leave. And judging by the state of how things currently are and given that there is no communication, I’m expecting there to be a lot of others who follow suit in abandoning any hope for practically anything being done to address any of these concerns.

We keep being told to remain positive, sure, but none of the major concerns anybody has are being addressed in any notable way. What even are the notable concerns? Well, I’ll try to summarize them in here, as someone who’s active in the community and is able to see through all the chaos currently plaguing everybody.

  • GitHub issues. There’s currently 232 open issues on GitHub and 69 (hehe funny number) pull requests. A lot of the listed issues practically don’t even have a singular reply to them, besides the comments on said issues made by @nta somewhere in August, from then on they just remain there, completely untouched. We understand development being slow, but please be transparent about what’s going on.

  • Even with the above mentioned, why are specific pull requests, such as Assorted Steam presence fixes by blattersturm · Pull Request #2324 · citizenfx/fivem · GitHub marked this way, when this has never even been the case before. “In this case it’s to verify Linux build is fine”, okay, sure, but why is this taking more than 3 weeks now? Please be transparent.

  • More on the 2nd bulletpoint here, you DO have actual good pull requests out there, and good issues that do require further investigation, however, none of them seem to be seemingly looked through in any capacity.

  • On the topic of platform uptime, what about E-mails? Google and Yahoo recently updated their E-mail sender guidelines which you can find here. It’s something I personally reported a while ago, and a DNS change isn’t a hard thing to implement. New users cannot even register on the platform as the activation E-mail is sent out, but due to missing specific requirements for the domain, these E-mails are never received.

  • This forum thread made by @Linden, addressing various concerns about the ToS: So releasing someone else's content is against the TOS, yes? as well as The "paid resource" meta regarding the Creator platform license agreement. There is quite a lot to read through. You may have your reservations about this particular person through other seemingly meme forum posts, however, these are all valid concerns from community members. Comments on all of these topics, including the latest community pulse, are a testament to this.

  • Actually enforcing ToS, a point that’s very, very dear to me. There’s a whole heap of game servers out there violating ToS, taking payments through various other platforms such as CashApp or PayPal friends & family, selling ToS branded real life cars, nude peds, child peds (How can you look at this, not be uttrely disgusted and NOT take any action whatsoever?), branded clothing etc. A lot of those game servers are even listed on the main menu of FiveM. Their shitty coding and frameworks aside, they’re monetizing through the most illicit and illegal means available. More on this, I’ve had people personally tell me they’ve had support requests about such ToS violations lingering since a month or even two months with nobody to address them. I’d love to report the hell out of such as well, but hey, I can only have one support ticket at a time, unfortunately enough. And none of them are addressed either way, so there’s no point in reporting any of them anymore, for most community members.

  • Lack of a support team. You’ve got amazing people helping out pretty much everybody we can find under #fivem-support in the discord guild. Good people from the community, such as @Matehun00, @Demonen, @JackP, myself and a lot of others that I currently don’t know the Cfx.re usernames of. It wouldn’t be hard to think of a support process, having us integrated properly into Forums and Discord, being able to manage threads, being able to form a bit of documentation on common issues instead of having to rely on third party websites (kindly made by @Demonen and it has been a huge help). Giving us a way to escalate certain issues if they’re out of our scope and we need somebody else to look into it. Why not, at the end of the day? My DMs are open, so why not reach out at any point if you do want to set up something meaningful you can put in a Community Pulse? It’s minimal effort at the end of the day.

  • When are you bringing @nta back? I’ve heard and read through some rumors, nothing entirely concrete, however, most of the community had some hope that they’ll eventually be back and sort through a lot of these concerns and issues the community has. And that’s all we’re left with in the end, hope that things might be better. Quite honestly, I don’t see them getting any better without them. I feel like a large majority of the community you still do have around shares the exact same sentiment. I’m very hopeful it’ll be soon, but as things are right now, that small sense of hope is getting crushed every day of your silence. Whilst I do realize these are very strong words, they are justified and needed. When they were around, things used to be far more transparent, whilst there might have been other issues, like platform outages or anything extra, they were usually justified. Stuff was actively worked on, brought up and raised to the community and there was far more outreach.

There’s too many specific and too many details to be listed all in one long post. I’m at least hopeful this will be read through as an outcry from the community you do have. The very same community who cares deeply about the project, is hopeful that things will eventually get better in the best way that they possibly can. The very same community who has stuck around for years on end, just being there, actively discussing, working through issues together.

We’re already very heartbroken and trust has been broken since a long time now. Please stop breaking our hearts further and further by the day. Say something. Anything at all. Whatever it may be. Address some of this in some way. Reach out. Reply. Do anything. Literally anything besides this. The never ending silence and secrecy.

There is no nta cult. There is no private discord guild where negative messages are shared. This is all public information gathered through a lot of time in the official Cfx.re discord guild. Everything that’s listed above is something of note that everyone wants an answer to.

I urge anyone to share their thoughts freely and how they personally feel as a form of an open letter in the comments regarding all of this. Assuming this thread doesn’t get deleted or closed down, I feel like it’ll provide some form of semblance to hopefully proceed forward in an actual meaningful way.

51 Likes

I was not expecting this long of a reply, but I read through it, and I have to say I agree with basically everything here.

I’ll add my name under this <3
(I still see the light at the end of the tunnel)

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I agree with everything that was stated here.
You can only hope the right people see it and make a push towards change.

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I urge anyone to share their thoughts freely and how they personally feel as a form of an open letter in the comments regarding all of this. Assuming this thread doesn’t get deleted or closed down, I feel like it’ll provide some form of semblance to hopefully proceed forward in an actual meaningful way.

I mean, what is there to add. Basically this complete post are all the main bullet points. The community knows it and Cfx themselves as well. All I have to say is that I wish you the best on getting a response though!
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100% agree with everything here.
And tbh, the main point for me, is just the lack of communication.
If Cfx don’t agree with points here, it would be nice to atleast know this, rather than just be left in the dark about absolutely everything.
I have seen people recently be like “why would i PR it? it wont get looked at anyway”, and that is super damaging to the community, especially in a community driven project.

I personally feel that the Cfx team just need to remember the roots of the project, and actually talk to the community about what is going on.

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Kudos for actually posting something like this. It’s about time the community stood up for themselves in times like this, rather than just accepting it and letting it unfold in front of themselves.

This increased vocalisation of current issues by known community members is what we need, while I’m not particularly involved within the FiveM community outside of a few pull requests to the FiveM repository and other community resources, I can still agree with everything that was stated here and in other threads such as those made by Linden.

This complete lack of activity on the GitHub repo is extremely disappointing, as Vivi4n said there are good pull requests that have been entirely ignored by CFX for multiple months (see feat(extra-natives/five): CScenarioConditionIsMultiplayerGame network check patch by z3t4s · Pull Request #2165 · citizenfx/fivem · GitHub) and in some cases up to 2 years (see feat(onesync): vehicle script game state research by MRV6 · Pull Request #1233 · citizenfx/fivem · GitHub), this has deterred people from contributing to the FiveM source code, as at the moment it will likely just get entirely ignored and be a waste of time.

I agree with this, although I personally don’t agree with some of the actions nta took when he was involved with cfx, the fact is he was heavily involved within the community and was transparent with development (not doing every commit in private like what is currently happening) and in-terms of dealing with Bug Reports and Feature suggestions, nta actually bothered to take action with these (see feat(resources): custom 'resource file set' overlays · citizenfx/fivem@702ffe6 · GitHub, feat(natives/five): {GET,RESET}_PED_MODEL_PERSONALITY · citizenfx/fivem@5fac854 · GitHub as examples). Now that nta is seemingly no longer involved with cfx. The feature requests and bug reports sections have almost gone entirely ignored by cfx (aside from the comments and fixes provided by Disquse).

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I’m glad to see other community members coming out and saying what I was saying months ago. I was bringing up this concerns in the Engineering Guild the main Discord guild but unfortunately got muted by some resentful Cfx member that doesn’t like me over my past behaviours (years and years ago and I’m a totally different person now). So I left the community at that point, but I am so passionate about FiveM and what it has been for my life over the past 7 years. So I am back attempting to voice my opinions again and hoping I don’t get silenced again by said resentful Cfx member.

Now in regards to nta no longer being involved (Cfx members are going to be triggered over whatever I say here since I am friends with nta). He was the one person capable of progressing this project and making it bigger and better, without him, this whole thing wouldn’t exist. Sure he has his quirks (who doesn’t?) but he always means well. There are only a couple of other people in Cfx that are actually capable of adding to FiveM/RedM (notice how there have been no new features since the Rockstar acquisition). Cfx NEEDS nta to continue improving, otherwise it’s going to sit stagnant like it currently is.

I’m not great with words, so sorry if this doesn’t make a lot of sense, but I am trying. I’m sure I’ll think of more later.

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[grunt of general agreement]

I mean, some of this has been elaborated on in private to select community members, but that’s not exactly transparency.

Hopefully the team is cohesive and communicating openly and productively internally, even if we don’t really see that from the outside.

I remain hopeful, but it’s getting harder. (That’s what she said!)

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Not a whole lot to say that isn’t mentioned here or in one of the other threads.

Regardless of personal disagreements with nta and the issues their involvement in the project lead to, there’s no denying that they did so much more for the platform and the community then anyone else, even everyone else.

  • Prioritisation of important fixes for reported issues/exploits.
  • Frequent and often major commits.
  • Code reviews.
  • Transparency and open communication.

On that last note - even some of the most mundane things were still given some sort of response, rather than being closed and unlisted… which is apparently done anonymously now.

There is no private discord guild where negative messages are shared.

nta and his friends are pretty open about their feelings and aren’t shy to say how they feel in the moment; what kind of negative messages would even be shared in private that haven’t already been proudly stated in some public channel?

There’s a whole heap of game servers out there violating ToS, taking payments through various other platforms such as CashApp or PayPal friends & family, selling ToS branded real life cars, nude peds, child peds (How can you look at this, not be uttrely disgusted and NOT take any action whatsoever?), branded clothing etc.

Not to mention, once again, that many of these tos violations are committed by high-profile members of the community - one of whom has a dedicated channel in the Cfx.re Project Hub with a link to the framework they maintain.

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Generally agree with the post, but don’t see see any need to latch on to nta/Dbub.

While I’m sure many of you have friendships with them, their actions in the past contributed to the environment we’re in, whether it was lack of leadership, internal conflict, etc.

The changes expected should come regardless of whoever is involved, and people shouldn’t put hopes on a “second coming”. CFX has always been a for profit company, one that made millions, which nta and others profited off of handsomely. If there’s regret over selling ones project, I think that’s best left out of this.

Maybe for certain development issues people in this thread are personally invested in slowed down, but I’ve never gotten a great vibe before.

The only expectations we should have are of customers and businesses, which aren’t being met and weren’t for years.

Some good points raised, especially about transparency, which I think CFX could greatly benefit from given the unique nature of FiveM’s community driven aspect compared to most other games.

However, I’m a bit surprised at the bring NTA back opinion. I recall a particular time that FiveM was down and on the home screen was a message that said something like “Fuck Rockstar”. Another time FiveM was down for something like 12 hours and the status page said that they FiveM would be down until the person who had access to the servers woke up. The CFX discord has been deleted multiple times. These incidents as well as stories I’ve heard from others make me believe that FiveM would not benefit from NTA being in a decision making capacity or having access to tooling/admin panels that could be used to harm the project.

What I suspect is happening is a bit of rose-tinted glasses when viewing the past. The same complaints today about transparency, lack of TOS enforcement, and lack of movement on PRs is nothing new. What is new is that FiveM uptime is significantly improved. I’d love for there to be more progress on other fronts, but I’m also being patient for the time being as I know corporate transitions can be difficult and lengthy. I expect that the team will figure some stuff out, make the right hires, and put a dent in some of the major challenges facing the community.

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I’m glad someone mentioned the improvements in uptime, whilst I agree with a lot of what’s been said here and elsewhere, no one seems to have brought this up yet. The entire platform used to go down every weekend, now that’s rarely the case. I think we’re now at a 99.9x% uptime now, post-acquisition, which is much better.

Just to provide another side to this whole thing too: I reported an issue (on the support site) with the keymaster failing to load when users have an extensive amount of assets on their account back in October… didn’t hear anything back for a month. I escalated the issue with the public relations team, heard back within 12 hours, had a brief conversation and a preliminary fix was implemented the next day, with some adjustments made the following day for a search feature. It definitely seems processes are flawed, particularly the whole support system, especially with the recent stories on the reported exploit.

Just thought I’d share another experience here… It’s not all bad, but I strongly agree that some major improvements are needed.

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I didn’t say it yesterday, didn’t really think about it to be honest but I 100% agree on this aswell and put my name down.

Other people were hired to handle platform management, team leadership, public relations, etc.

These people have consistently failed to perform their jobs and are still employed to this day; the only thing we ever got was false promises. Supposedly the only openness is with a select few in the “boys club” of the releng guild - by the team working on adhesive.

I don’t necessarily think nta should come back, but it’s hilarious that the only improvements from their absence are server stability while everything else has gotten worse. I think they would be better off without the stress of dealing with this platform and the incompetent swindlers running it.

Yes I am sure you know everything there is to know after using your in-depth knowledge of the Google searchbar.

And how much do you know about the acquisition and nta’s involvement in that?

Naturally, and yet they would greatly benefit from nta having some involvement in the project. Instead we have the same incompetent team that failed to deliver on any promises made to the community or nta.

And yet those things have gotten worse since the acquisition. Not because of R*, but because nta was the only person that did them - despite having hired people who should have been handling all of those things.

Let’s not forget that for ~2 weeks post-acquisition the servers were constantly failing by the way; so instability wasn’t an nta problem. Disregarding intentional takedowns, uptime is significantly improved because of R* and not anything Cfx did.

Not the current team - we still need to wait for R* to remove the old guard and put in actual competent people. Fortunately there is somebody more than competent with a long-history on the platform returning, so we just need to wait for the former part.

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Other people were hired to handle platform management, team leadership, public relations, etc.

These people have consistently failed to perform their jobs and are still employed to this day; the only thing we ever got was false promises. Supposedly the only openness is with a select few in the “boys club” of the releng guild - by the team working on adhesive.

Sure but that’s not an excuse - all these individuals have failed in their roles by this metric, that doesn’t mean nta/dbub is somehow justified in their behavior/actions.

Additionally, they weren’t leaders/leadership, they may be failing in their roles, but it isn’t as bad as leader or founder. I’m not going to stand in your way of criticizing their behavior.

I don’t necessarily think nta should come back, but it’s hilarious that the only improvements from their absence are server stability while everything else has gotten worse. I think they would be better off without the stress of dealing with this platform and the incompetent swindlers running it.

Stability is a big thing IMO, and shouldn’t be discounted. I’ve always told you, I generally agree with your assessment of the state of Fivem. Maybe I’m seeing improvements/have different metrics than you, but a lot of things in my view have improved in other areas. I’m not happy at the state of things and it’s still in a dire state in some areas, but I’ve seen improvement.

Yes I am sure you know everything there is to know after using your in-depth knowledge of the Google searchbar.

I’m not sure why every response from you has to include insults, sarcasm, and attempts at belittling. If you want, you can easily use a Google search bar and find company registration and info. I don’t claim to have secret knowledge or skills.

And how much do you know about the acquisition and nta’s involvement in that?

I don’t know any special details, but it’s not any secret information I’m using to determine this. I’m not going to share the details here (I don’t want to derail/devalue this thread) and if you want to know more, you’re free to DM me on the forums or Discord.

Where did I say it was justified? I’m simply pointing out that they booted out the only person doing anything for the platform.

Did you read that thread I linked? Changes to the Cfx.re core team & a word on recent events

To start off, I’m very excited to announce that I will be joining the Cfx.re team to take over leadership. Going forward, I will take on all major responsibilities of the platform and community, manage our team and set out our roadmap.

This person did not ensure people did their jobs, and did not do their own job. He is still here, he is a key part of the acquisition, and he is a key part of nta’s absence.

Maybe you’re missing the part where that stability is not the result of any actions taken by Cfx?

Guys, whilst I appreciate the comments, can we not turn this thread into a flame war? There’s more than enough of a negative notion to everything that’s already written. It’s completely okay to have differing opinions. Some people agree with what I’ve said, some don’t agree with everything, and that is absolutely fine, at the end of the day, we’re still just members of the community sharing our thoughts. I personally wouldn’t want any of those thoughts to be attacked.

The thread was made for everyone to share their personal opinion, not fight others over theirs.

Removed at request of OP