Theres a bunch of us frustrated

FiveM Discussion
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yes this is a rant…

I just feel like there’s a large group of people at this point that want to either get into modeling or scripting of some sort, and it seems nearly impossible to get any useful help in these areas.

  1. Theres gatekeepers - the real og’s/teachers all gatekeep and would probably never make a tutorial on building or scripting in fear of gaining competition… weird.
  2. Half of the people im referring to, wont offer support on their products and throw a massive fit when their things get exploited. In no way am I saying exploiting is ok. It’s not. But what I am saying is some of these modders are rude and nearly impossible to work with but are all perfectly fine with taking our money.

What is this stocks??? Now I’m on the same bandwagon that I don’t want this craft to become oversaturated. BUT what is the point of all this if we cant see what limits we can really reach. We all have good ideas and a lot of us are gonna be beat to the punch, but only the strong will survive. No one(most modders) likes teaching in this community. They’d rather link you to a vague tutorial that explains bare minimum with no support or help if, and when anything goes wrong.

At first I assumed people just didn’t want to share the market, but recently its been feeling more like the og’s think were “messing things up”, or saturating “their game”.

IDK… random thoughts. what do yall think??

p.s. i would make tutorials myself but i dont have the information…

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@ElRogish

In my opinion, it seems that you’re frustrated because you can’t find the right knowledge to satisfy your desire of learning how to work with FiveM (Lua, JS or C#). I would also go so far as to say you’re probably feeling overwhelmed and you’re turning that into direct anger at those who you believe should help you and you can’t understand why they aren’t.

So, what does someone do when they struggle to program? They search for released scripts and resources to edit, which is what you have been doing. Unfortunately, you also hit a brick wall with editing other people’s code because you couldn’t understand it. So you reached out to the authors of these released scripts that you’ve been editing (in the hopes of getting answers) and they’ve offered little to no support. As a result, you’ve now bred ill feelings towards authors of released scripts because you feel they’re rude, useless and just take your money.

All of this has added up to the point where you now felt the best thing to do was vent and rant about it here.

Am I right?

Away from my attempt at dry humour and sarcasm, here’s my serious opinion on what you should do moving forwards.

  • Utilise what is available at your disposal
    • YouTube tutorials
    • FiveM Docs
    • This forum
    • Your own dev environment (practice, test, sandbox, experiment etc)
  • Stop attacking those you believe should help you
    • Wasting unnecessary energy being a drama queen
    • Time could be better spent actually learning

Just remember, these “OGs” who you’re referring to had next to nothing to learn from when they started yet they still learnt the language. Someone starting today is in such a better position to learn because all the hard work has been done and IS AVAILABLE. All you have to do is search for it and read read read (or watch watch watch) :slight_smile:

Peace.

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You both make some valid points… So my opinion is mutual and I’m not taking any sides.

Sometimes however, a tutorial for what you think is basic tier level, turns out to be a “You need 20 years of experience before you understand the next paragraph I tell you”, which, isn’t their fault and yes, you could self teach yourself, however sometimes all you ask for is a stepping stone to get you started and everyone seems to sigh and roll their eyes.

I can understand that people who know something today, knew nothing in 2013, but even just leaving breadcrumbs is more than enough for some people.

For me personally, I found every forum post and FiveM documentation and the cook book, confusing when it came to streaming scenarios; I have now since succeeded, but there is still a lot I don’t understand. Now, I have a GitHub repository, however I was bombarded with questions so I’m somewhat thankful it’s not something I really advertise here on the forums as I don’t want to be the “FiveM scenarios guy”, just like I don’t want to be the “Dpemotes guy of 2022”.

Some people find the tutorials a little too complex too, so I dumbed down and wrote a tutorial for enforcing Gamebuilds that even I can understand myself. I think sometimes, people over complicate things, and we’re not necessarily telling you “do it for me” but rather, “can you explain it in a way I can understand”.

And if you pay for an MLO and it’s broken, you reach out to the creator to fix it and they ignore you, that’s shady asf :weary:.

I feel your pain, but I do also understand where akeem is coming from. Hang in there, not all of us are gatekeepers…

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Tl’dr: We all have to start somewhere.

People always ask me “How are you so good at this?” and I can only reply “Because I have 10 years of programming experience and 5 years of experience in FiveM.”.
But that still doesn’t mean that I can do everything or other things that I do well. TayMcKenzieNZ above me says that he knows scenarios pretty well. And I don’t, like at all.

In our community “Can you help me with xyz?” will always have mixed results. Yes, I can help you with “programming” related things. But I cannot and will not help you with some framework related stuff I barely touch(ed).
95% of questions is always regarding ESX or QB and not FiveM itself. And I simply refuse to answer most of those questions because they have been answered a thousand times already. Just look for it.

With all that being said, my advise for learning programming (or how to work with FiveM in general) comes down to how much you want it. We “OGs” all had to start somewhere and so do you. And keep in mind that many of us came from a time where not a lot was even known yet. So we had to test and try out even more stuff than you do nowadays.

I also really want to make tutorials, but with my current financial situation I simply cannot dedicate any time to making videos or streams or write text tutorials.

And if there are people that do not offer support for their products (talking about paid ones):
Do not buy them. And if they do provide support according to their store page but do not actually or do a really shitty job about it, report them to CFX. Simple as that.

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Figure I would throw in 2 cents since I jumped into FiveM modding with basically no experience.

Theres gatekeepers - the real og’s/teachers all gatekeep and would probably never make a tutorial on building or scripting in fear of gaining competition… weird.

This is pretty much true, a lot of questions get met with “just do this XD” and it is frustrating.
But after going through the process of learning myself, spending months to just write basic Lua scripts, it’s hard to gauge the knowledge of whoever you are helping since there’s a high chance its some random QB script kiddie, and is not worth the effort to respond properly.

Half of the people im referring to, wont offer support on their products and throw a massive fit when their things get exploited.

I would say at least 50% of scripts out there are copy pasted from somewhere else, including a lot of code written by me (******* Inspired :mascot:)
Those people probably don’t know how to even fix the issues they are having.

On the other side you have planned exploits in certain resources so they can sell “anticheat”, but that’s another rabbit hole…

I was lucky enough to get involved with other very talented FiveM developers and it accelerated the rate I could learn by a lot, so my advice is to try and find someone or a group you can get started with to learn from, and have someone always there to review with you.

Nobody will ever have the time to write hundreds of pages of proper tutorials because there’s simply no reward in doing so. Until you can get a group, I recommend studying the GTAV decompiled scripts as you can learn a lot about how R* uses natives themselves, and try implementing them yourself in JS/Lua.

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After reading all reply’s i can only suggest that they (the devs) are to busy working on next projects or cannot simply teach every guy who is asking for knowledge. They started learning for themselves at some point in their life (school or work or whatever)
and there are many good tutorials available on the www.
It isnÄt something to simply learn in a couple of days. There are some complicated methods behind coding (even if coding for gta is quite simple because the natives are given by FIveM and so on)

Imagine coding an entire game in C … damn boys we are far away from this,

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Yea, it is just that.

As I stated in my previous post, I simply (and sadly) do not have the time (or money) to support making tutorials (or similar stuff).

I really like helping people, but there is a HUGE difference between helping someone who already knows coding with some sort of problem they are having and someone that literally just touched FiveM and scripting (or coding in general) and asks the (for us) most stupid questions that have been answered a thousand times already.

Some people go to IT school for years before they even start coding their own programs.
I have already written a graphics and physics engine and together with a buddy our own custom netcode for games.
And here I am as a “god” what some people in our Community call me (that really gets on my nerves xD) and people ask why their TriggerServerEvent inside a while true loop doesn’t work. Explaining that to someone with no knowledge is basically useless because most people can’t even grasp the concept behind those things after intesive studying.

Back from (several) school(s) I can only say:
At least 50% of the people there are there because they know that IT jobs pay well.
35% of people are there because they find it cool and are “gamers”.
The other 15% are people who already know some stuff about it and want to learn more or people that actually want to work in that area and are genuinely interested.

Simply put: Most people come from a background that doesn’t involve any programming at all. Most schools in Germany don’t even offer IT in the first place (at least when I was there :wink: ).
I personally don’t care about those first 85% because they probably won’t stick to it. They will do it for as long as they play with FiveM, but they will never get further.
So why support that? In the end both their and my time teaching them was wasted for “a phase”.

I often answer questions in great detail (sometimes even stupid questions) only to have the next guy not use the searchbar with the same question. At some point it is like greeting people on the street: If they stop greeting you, you will stop greeting other people. It is as it is.

I feel like this is enough for now and I’m tired typing and it is hot af here :smiley:

If it comes over as a rant:
/rant end

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This couldn’t be more wrong. I haven’t hit a brick wall. I never acted like doing developer work is the most difficult thing in the world. There’s literally limited information. You’re assuming that I haven’t already attempted to do the research I’m referring to which is not correct. There’s almost a limit to the things you can learn because of the things I’m saying in the original point. Yes there is a lot of base information, but when you want to expand upon the information that’s already out there, we’re practically on our own trying to figure things out.

p.s. this post took me the time of a youtube ad to type. my time is well spent. And if there were more tutorials on the things I’m trying to learn I would most definitely watch them. thanks though. no hard feelings btw. i enjoy a good debate

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I know that everyone isn’t gatekeeping or withholding information from the community, and I wish I had the tools to start modding back when everyone else did. I see me saying “Og’s” ruffled a couple feathers lol. Wasn’t the intention, but at least it got a conversation going. My main point was what you said half way through, there’s a lot of people that have information that isn’t available to many other people because of their experience and they dont even leave small hints as to how to be so great.
So no, @keem_developments Im not angry honestly. and if anything im jealous.

I’ll compare it to this… You ever been in a sport or in school and your teacher or coach makes you take things step by step even though you’re already more advanced than the lesson they’re teaching. Now let’s say you get all the way through middle school and all your teachers and coaches just stop teaching. That’s what it feels like. At least as a new guy

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@ElRogish

Of course there’s no hard feelings, this is just a very passionate topic :wink:

Anyways, to summarise my original point, there is help available - albeit ‘limited’. That’s just the way it is unfortunately and those who want to help will help, and those who don’t will steer away and just watch you from the stands.

I myself try to help as many people as I can from the knowledge I possess and continue to gain daily, but of course I am only 1 person so there’s only so much I can do. If only there was a whole classroom full of Akeems… :smiley:

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Cant really speak to the scripting side of things, because that world can get complicated really quick. But I have actively been searching for all types of information on modeling and props and such and the information eventually comes to a halt and you’re in a loop of joining discords for more information lol. I have to edit my original post also because it says modding instead of modelling.

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Oh yea…

Modelling is on another level. I personally have no experience in that regard. Unlike in scripting, you cannot just look at a finished resource to figure out how they made it.
After all you cannot tell from a 3D model which software was necessary to make it. While I do know how to do basic 3D modelling, I could not tell you how it works for FiveM/GTA.

I usually learn from things that have been done already and not from (video) tutorials. I just need the hands-on approach. I wanted to make some really basic models for a script idea I had. And I basically just stopped immediately when I figured out that there isn’t something like that xD

But the same goes for sound modding. I know there are some tools out there that allow changing/adding sound to the game but as far as I know they are closed from the public as of now. But again, I could be wrong. Could have changed in the past few months. But I have also never seen a tutorial on that.

So yea, I feel you in the regards of 3D modelling :smiley:

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Maybe one day I will have enough knowledge to help put together some type of class available to everyone. That would be dope.

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